tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post7121558483550704030..comments2024-03-14T03:35:39.631-04:00Comments on X-men Supreme: X-men Forever Giant Size #1 - Nostalgic MediocrityJack Fisherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04929572842990203873noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-63433900011756102402010-06-07T12:28:42.327-04:002010-06-07T12:28:42.327-04:00Yeah, I can definitely see some parallels with the...Yeah, I can definitely see some parallels with the Warren/Betsy relationship. I'm surprised how little that pairing was refined given how many fans seem to like it. Claremont seems to have a pattern going here. He makes the man seem undeserving and then makes the woman out to be a cheating skank. At least with Black Widow and Colossus, there was a sizable gap in the continuity where Colossus could have ventured to Russia and started something with Black Widow. There was no such gap for Jean, Logan, Scott, and Beast. In fact, Jean wasn't even around Logan all that much until X-men 1-3 yet we're to believe that she developed a love for him that superceded the love she developed with Scott? And that happened over the course of 5 years with X-Factor. I know the annual was supposed to fill it in, but the way Claremont brought it together was just so contrived. It was like he just wanted to find a way to force Jean and Logan together the way bad fanfiction writers like to force their favorite characters together. It's a real shame because Claremont is better than that.Jack Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929572842990203873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-20276621718921434922010-06-07T06:25:41.304-04:002010-06-07T06:25:41.304-04:00Claremont has done something analogous to Psylocke...Claremont has done something analogous to Psylocke and Archangel.He insinuated that Betsy deserved someone better than Warren and he barely took the time to explain why they grew distant from each other.Instead he introduced an idiotic character from India and made it as though Betsy developped an attraction to someone she hardly knew.And after she was resurrected in the ReLoad era,her relationship with Neal was also tossed aside and she started flirting and spleeping with every random man she bumped into.So,that's what she deserved?<br /><br />But Jean's erratic personality is just the beginning.Lorna accepted Alex in her life,after everything he put her through?And it's not just the pairing of Henry and Jean that came out of no-where.What about Colossus and the Black Widow?Selenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10663763467851753299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-42867102712551569042010-06-07T06:23:19.502-04:002010-06-07T06:23:19.502-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Selenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10663763467851753299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-69732860730905034112010-06-06T13:18:41.102-04:002010-06-06T13:18:41.102-04:00I agree with you on the characterization, Selene. ...I agree with you on the characterization, Selene. What Claremont did to Scott, Jean, Logan, Kitty, Sabretooth, and Ororo was just a travesty. I get these are his characters and this is his series, but again he said he would respect the 1991 continuity. In that continuity Scott and Jean weren't having any problems. They were still very much in love. They were building a stronger relationship. Hell, Jean was taking to her role as Nathan's mother. There was no hint of trouble like there was with Grant Morrison. At least with Morrison he developed a rift between them in a believable way. Apocalypse messed Scott up. He struggled to make sense of it and Jean certainly didn't help by becoming more Phoenix again. At the very least, Morrison showed some respect for Scott and Jean's love. By the end he made it pretty clear that they did love each other and it took a push from Jean as White Phoenix to get Scott to go with Emma.<br /><br />Here in Forever, it really does a disservice to Scott and Jean's relationship when Jean just throws herself at Logan. I actually wouldn't have a problem with it if the annual was the base to go by, but then Jean had to fall for Beast when Logan's body was still warm in the grave. It cheapens her love for Logan and for Scott as well. It's like her love means about as much as dental floss and a Willy Nelson concert. That's not Jean Grey. This is a woman who sacrificed a lot for Scott and he sacrificed a lot for her. Now he's suddenly okay with her loving someone else and breaking his heart? And she's okay with pushing him away? Sorry, but I don't buy it.<br /><br />I love most of Claremont's work in pretty much every other medium. Forever is the first comic I've read in a while that I've been genuinely disappointed. He's so much better than this. It pains me to see Forever unfold the way it has. Claremont did more than anyone to build up these characters and with this series he's destroying what he made. It's just wrong on so many levels. I still think Forever can be salvaged, but it has a long way to go.Jack Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929572842990203873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-10435953831228911082010-06-06T12:08:48.996-04:002010-06-06T12:08:48.996-04:00You see,I'm starting to believe that the reaso...You see,I'm starting to believe that the reason why I dislike X-Men:Forever is the same reason why I hated Morrison's run;the characters have changed BEYOND recognition.As much as I like Scott and Jean as a couple,I don't oppose to their parting ways,on condition that it's done sensibly and believably.In X-Men:Forever,however,Claremont established that Jean fell for Logan because he kisses well,meanwhile in New X-Men Morrison established that Scott grew weary of Jean and that Jean was beneath him.BUT,at least,Jean and Scott under Claremont behave like mature individuals and have decided to separate on friendly terms;Jean didn't have to die for Scott to get progressed,nor the reverse,unlike what happened in Morrison's run.<br /><br />As for Xavier in X-Men:Forever,I have to laugh now at those who consider that his mainstream counter-part has turned into a mindless,selfish caricature of his former self,while he(Xavier in X-Men:Forever)is acting like himself.What's happened to mainstream Professor Xavier is NOTHING compared to the disaster Claremont's Xavier caused in issue #5 by not informing the X-Men,when he suspected that the use of their mutant powers was shortening their life-span.So,according to Mr.Claremont,every Danger Room session ever held has been an unreasonable risk and the X-Men have been contributing to a dream that was basically killing them?<br /><br />Claremont continues to mis-characterize Psylocke.He's written two insignificant scenes with her and they're both abhorrent.In the first,Kurt basically tells her "Betsy,the X-Men aren't for the likes of you liebchen,you should be safer in England!" and Betsy responds positively.All right,something's wrong here.Betsy *loves* danger and action and the fact that the X-Men are going through difficult times would normally stir her interest in joining them.And then,there's this absurd guest-appearance in the annual issue,where she speaks and behaves like a brainless "action-junkie" and a female berserker.That Psylocke has nothing to do with the beautiful ninja with the charming accent and the witty and elegant attitude of a woman originating from an upper-class Brititsh family.<br /><br />And I don't even understand what is going on with Kitty and Storm.<br /><br />And I love Chris Claremont,as well.I'm not amongst those who are quick to insult him,because his work lately has been underwhelming.I loved Revolution.I loved X-Treme X-Men.I LOVED the X-Treme X-Men:Mekanix mini-series.I liked X-Men:The End,despite the fact that it was,more or less,a convoluted mess.I LOVED GeNext and GeNext:United.I may have found New Excalibur,New Exiles and his Uncanny X-Men run during the "Reload" era wastes of tree and ink,but that didn't inhibit me from wanting to give X-Men:Forever a chance.But I have been awfully disappointed so far.Selenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10663763467851753299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-90796617771790630512010-06-06T12:04:28.564-04:002010-06-06T12:04:28.564-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Selenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10663763467851753299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-88848956274453707732010-06-06T10:50:42.118-04:002010-06-06T10:50:42.118-04:00Thanks Josh. Thank you too, Selene. I agree that I...Thanks Josh. Thank you too, Selene. I agree that I would not have a problem with this book at all if Claremont hadn't billed it as a continuation of X-men 3. He has said that the continuity before 1991 is fair game and that's a big problem. He essentially ignored or outright retconed without any depth that the characters had before Forever was supposed to start. Plus, he has to go through the task of thoroughly butchering characters like Jean Grey (Logan and Jean I can understand, but Jean and Beast? Hell no!) and Cyclops and Kitty and plenty of others. I want to like this book. Really, I love Chris Claremont to death, but this just destroyed too much of the majesty he himself built up. That's the real tragedy. He's vindicating the decision to take him off the book with each new issue of X-men Forever. I normally NEVER side with editors, but here I am.Jack Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929572842990203873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-66478137091657772732010-06-05T21:27:03.471-04:002010-06-05T21:27:03.471-04:00If you ask me,the book is fine on its own.But the ...If you ask me,the book is fine on its own.But the saddest,most outrageous part is that they call it a continuation of Adjectiveless X-Men #3.I can accept that it doesn't follow Claremont's abandoned plots and that the writing is very out-dated.There is absolutely no respect for continuity and the characterizations are simply horrid(especially,Jean and Xavier's).<br /><br />So,yes,I,more or less,also agree with your review.Selenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10663763467851753299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1917870048446264335.post-3276245426728395832010-06-05T20:25:57.419-04:002010-06-05T20:25:57.419-04:00Agreed.Agreed.Joshua Hetheringtonnoreply@blogger.com