The content of this post is actually lifted form a post I made on a message board a while back. I thought it was poignant to post here as well because it covers a topic that is currently an ongoing issue in X-men Supreme and it is also a major issue of a current comics, X-men Forever Annual #1. The nature of this relationship has always been a source of contention in the comics so it's unavoidable for anyone who is trying to make a new X-men series. Here's my thoughts on this subject.
Among the most famous and probably most controversial pairings has to be Wolverine and Jean Grey. I've noticed there are a few notable Jean/Logan websites. It's a pretty popular pairing in the annuls of X-men. It became a central theme of the X-men movies. So naturally, I've used this pairing extensively in my X-men Supreme series so far. In doing so I've confronted something that has been bothering me for years now.
The romance between Jean Grey and Wolverine has been by far the most mishandled, misconstrued, and at times destructive pairing in the history of X-men. I know that's saying a lot, but given how long this plot has been used I think we can objectively say it ranks right up there. I've never come across a comic book couple that has such ardent detractors and die-hard supporters. As a fan in general, I think it's one of those "good on paper" type ideas that just was so poorly fleshed out that it's become an open scab throughout the story of the X-men. Part of the problem was how it started. Chris Claremont originally had Logan attracted to Jean Grey because he just soured on Cyclops and Jean Grey. He has gone on record as saying he completely despised the Scott/Jean romance after what happened with Madelyn Pryor and had he stayed on board, he would have broken them up and put Jean with Logan. He's already shown this in his X-men Forever series. It was one of the many reasons he split with the editors at the time. I think this sort of sets the tone because it wasn't so much done because these characters complimented each other. It was done more so as a foil to the Scott/Jean romance. That just really doesn't work. That would be akin to being a soccer fan just because you hate American football.
As a result, Logan and Jean's attraction was made to be really spotty. There were moments like Xtinction Agenda and Inferno where they kissed, but Jean pushed away. Then there were later moments like in Morrison where the kissing was mutual, but coupled with Jean lamenting over her love for Scott. The movies played this up even more by not just having Logan be the anti-Scott, but by having the part of Jean that was attracted to him be the darker part that became Phoenix. That really doesn't fall in line with her character and it speaks poorly of Logan's influence not just on her, but on everybody he's close to. In both cases it's always the same. There's an unrequited love between them. Logan loves Jean, but Jean doesn't love him in the same way and the man she does love is a man Logan can't stand. This sort of angle is good for a few plots, but it has been dragged out for so long over the years that it's not just old. It's destructive to their characters.
I look at X-men Forever as the best example. In this Chris Claremont clearly wanted them together now that no editors were in his way. But he couldn't undo the depth and complexity of the relationship Jean had with Scott, much of which he himself built up. The only way to make it happen was to force it and that just destroyed the elements of each character. It made Jean come off as a cheating skank and Logan come off as some overly emotional pretty boy when he's supposed to be the ultimate loner. This highlights the main stumbling block to their affairs. Logan and Jean are really made to compliment each other in the proper context. X-men Forever just thrust them together through sheer editorial force. Other mediums like the movies, Ultimate X-men, and the Earth X series put them together without any real depth. It was all just attraction that was pulled out of the air and used as a plot device. At no point was any effort made to really let it happen naturally as has been done with other successful pairings. The only instance I can cite that really made a serious effort to show their chemistry was Age of Apocalypse. That's where their romance was built around their respective characters and plot. It felt natural as it emerged and it was a good dramatic element to the underlying story. That's been the lone exception and I can't contemplate too many other areas where it has been done quite as well.
Now I know there are some who are completely disgusted by Jean and Logan as a pairing. That's perfectly fair. People can have their own tastes. Some hate it just because they love Scott and Jean so much better or they prefer Logan with someone else. My position is that any pairing can be made to work if it's done properly. And Jean/Logan has almost never been done properly. It's almost always been detrimental to each character. It either makes Jean out to be a skank or it takes away some of the defining characteristics that make Logan who he is. That's why I've often dreaded seeing references to it in most comics. That is also why I'm often against Jean hooking up with Logan when she comes back in 616 because given how it's been handled, it has little chance of ending well. I can understand in some ways how these two would be drawn together. They do have serious chemistry. That attraction is not just physical. There is some emotional depth to it and they do have potential. It's just the kind of potential that's not easily realized.
I've tried to keep this in mind as I've written my X-men Supreme series. At the moment, I have Jean and Logan dating. There's no unrequited love or unspoken passion. They actually are boyfriend and girlfriend and they actually are dating as a real couple. It's an angle to the characters I haven't seen explored too often even in fanfiction. I wanted to set my series apart in that respect so I've made a concerted effort to flesh out the Jean/Logan romance while avoiding some of the mistakes I feel have been made in other mediums. I'm sure some of the Jean fans here will disapprove. I respect that. But this is something I feel should be addressed because it's been so mangled in so many other ways.
Right now I'm just 9 issues in and Jean and Logan have been together since issue 5. I'm still left with some questions about this apiring. Can it be done well? Has it been done well? Have I done an okay job with it on my end? Am I completely wrong on my assessment? If so, please tell me. I want to know what you think. Jean and Logan are both some of my all time favorite comic characters. I've often had a conflicted view of the romance plots they've endured and I think it's something that deserves to be discussed.
Jesus H. Christ FINALLY somebody gets it! I've always been so disappointed with the fanfiction and the comics when it came to this pairing. There is so much potential here but it always falls flat whenever it gets close.
ReplyDeleteI've found fanfiction that start off amazing, but then turn sour (like the comics) when it comes to this pairing because Jean is always portrayed as an unsure school girl trying to decide who to love when it's completely obvious she's in love with both of them in different ways.
In my own opinion I believe that the Phoenix force does play a great part in this relationship as well. I was always so disappointed with the comics and animated series with how the treated the Phoenix character.
In my opinion I believe that the Phoenix is really Jean's true self, hidden and locked away, that primal part of her, that less tamed and controlled part is what should (and does) attract her to Logan. To her, he represents what she truly is, and what she's afraid, yet thrilled to be.
Scott represents what she's trying to be. He represents her attempt to hide away the part of her mind that scares her. He represents safety, a shield and lock to anything that might harm her or scare her.
Logan is freedom. And that freedom away from that lock and chain is downright terrifying to her...at least to part of her. Another part of her begs for it, claws for it. That I believe is what really makes their attraction so believable.
With Scott, she HAS to be Jean Grey. Nothing more, nothing less.
With Logan? She can be anything she wants to be without having to fear his rejection, or lack of understanding.
Sad thing is, though some people might understand it, you are completely right when you say it's incredibly difficult to portray this without making Jean seem like a cheating slut. Without Wolverine seem like a sappy school boy.
My own answer to this, my opinion is that...Writers are afraid. Their fear of corrupting or perverting the character that is Jean Grey is what holds them back from really unleashing her potential as a character.
What writers of this nature seem to forget is that Jean Grey is a 'human'. As humans we have emotions, we change our disposition. We grow and we get angry or we get wise. I don't understand why everyone is so afraid to have Jean go through a drastic change, to have her embrace her darker side and learn to accept it.
Nobody seemed to have this issue with Storm. As I recall her character changed multiple times in the comics, at one point she cut her long hair short and dressed like a freaking biker!
Why the hell can't Jean Grey face her fear of The Phoenix, face her love for Logan? I honestly believe that she can come to 'control' that phoenix force within her, if she had Logan by her side, an animal himself.
It's always 'scott' this and 'scott' that, as though she has no will of her own, as though she lives only for him. It's not ALWAYS the case, but at the same time doesn't she ALWAYS go back to Scott in the end?
...I've ranted alot. But I needed to get this out. Regardless this is all just my humble opinion.
Haha, Maybe I should start writing X-Men fanfiction and get my ideas out onto paper. Who knows, maybe someone will agree with me? Haha, thanks for reading my rant.
You have written EXACTLY EVERYTHING i think about this pairing! I absolutely agree! Phoenix is who Jean really is or at the least a big part of her and with Logan ALL of her is embraced and accepted. Whilst with Scott, its hidden and she will forever be stunted in her character as she is unable to face her fear of what her 'other side' is, it's the fear of the unknown and it holds back the potential for one of my FAVOURITE ALL TIME PAIRINGS! UGH!
DeleteIt's logical! Of all people, Wolverine could be the one to show her the balance between Phoenix and Jean. Wolverine isn't a total beast as shown by his will to do what's right and by his contrast to Sabretooth, who essentially represents what Wolverine can become. Of course Logan has the knowledge and strength to help Jean embrace and yet control her enormous ability. And yet, her fear of the freedom she can have is what prevents her relationship with Wolverine...
PLUS THEIR CHEMISTRY IS JUST WOOOOOAH FIRE HOT DAMN! With Scott, it's just... bleh.
And i am a not a good writer, at all. I write dot points. I greatly admire any fiction writer, go for it and write if you have the ideas, you can only get better!
Sorry, but I think you've got it ass backwards. Look at stories like X-men Forever or the brief What If comic that had Wolverine hook up with Jean Grey instead of Cyclops. In each time, Wolverine did not help Jean control her power or strike a balance. He only pushed her over the edge and she completely lost control of herself. Wolverine is many things. Control is NOT one of them. He has anger-management issues and poor impulse control. That's something Jean Grey really can't afford to have when she's packing cosmic heat. I get the sense that the reason you like Jean/Wolverine is because you find Jean/Scott boring. That's not a good reason to support them and you know that.
DeleteNo it is a good reason to support them, they both have powers beyond their control, so why not just unleash them once in a while ? With Scott, she will never be able to be completely herself, so fuck that, I always loved Wolvi with Jean and the way they kissed made me so horny, damn !
DeleteWhy the fuck do you say that Jean can't be herself with Cyclops? Emma Frost already revealed that Cyclops can be just as much a badass and a deviant as Wolverine. Seriously, what can Jean NOT do with Cyclops? How is he holding her back? Just because two people share a hot kiss doesn't mean they're ripe for a relationship. If that were the case, porn would be billed as epic romance. If that makes you horny, stick to porn. Don't use it as an excuse to butcher two great characters the way Claremont did in X-men Forever.
DeleteWriters should read your comment and meditate on it!
DeletePS: Logan & Jean are made for each other.. I think she is with Scott because he feels alone (like her). [My opinion] :)
Your the only positive comment i was looking for and you put it in such great words about Jean and Logan pairing ,they have so much chemistry and potential a one to be starcross lovers and its not just their attraction but the deep feelings that they share which makes them the ultimate OTP.
DeleteAbsolutely agree with Jeans character is different being with scott and Logan may be thas why she loves him and keep going back to Logan because he makes her liberated and she feels the freedom for being herself ,she doesn't need to hide anymore with him ,she can be truly herself and embrace the phoenix power rather then pushing it away cause phoenix is her not seprate entity ,she is basically her true power which she is afraid of handling .
As women I can say that her character is not handled well , sometimes it feels like she only exist to be Scotts wife and see him leading nothing else even though he cheated on her multiple times still the Jean scott shipper behave like they are perfect for each other which is hilarious and they are mostly men who feels how women should feel and stay with .
Jean started as young but she has grown into women and she as you said as humen we change adn as we grow older we make different choices,her attraction to Logan was proof that she wanted something different ,she wanted embrace her different side but she was too afraid atleast in the coMics it is ,in the movie it was clear that she wanted to be with Logan but she wont break scotts heart yet she will keep looking after Logan.
I just feel as women she should have choice to make decisions as who she wants to be and her embracing full potential of Phoenix would have made her more stronger character then following scott this Scott that,it honestly hell boring its like writer making her blind to scotts red flag and thas it tahs her life wasted a potential character.
Also it should be her choice to who she wants to be with then. By making guilt choices.
I feel that with Logan she would have been free as then both truly understand each other and can challenge each other ,with scott she is way into her comfert zone hence nothing really happens to her character really .She either dies or become housewife .
If she was paired and done rightly with Logan then they ahd potential to become the most powerful couple of the MCU but nahhh the writers wanted to fool around.
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ReplyDeleteI'm a fan of Logan & Jean pairing. I sincerely wish they really ended up together instead of Jean and Scott.
ReplyDelete"They do have serious chemistry. That attraction is not just physical. There is some emotional depth to it and they do have potential. It's just the kind of potential that's not easily realized." ---> Totally agree!!!
im still for jean/scott,they're just fitted to be the legal relatioship and your right there's just so much depth in the relationship that ruining them will seem like stepping at your own characters & stories, with rachel, cable etc.etc its just too complicating that they're trying to fit in a new pair with each other... logan-jean will just always be exciting if its done with infidelity... it will seem boring if they will play nice, and that is what the audience are aching for the cheating part, unrequited love, but then there's scott, who from being the partner becomes the rival... I think jean & logan is ok if jean gets all wild, but that cant be fully her. And thats why when the lights are in, she still looks good hanging in scotts arms.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the input, Truehearts! I'm glad you took the time to read over my assessment, which I wrote quite a while ago mind you.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Scott and Jean offer the most complete relationship. They compliment each other in a way where you can actually see them getting married, having kids, and being together. It's harder to see that with Logan and Jean or Logan and anybody for that matter because Logan's defining trait is that he's a loner. Him being in a long-term relationship is like James Bond being married. It just doesn't fit. The whole cheating and unrequited love aspect was a nice plotline for a while, but now it's been so overblown by the comics and movies it disgusts me. That's why in X-Men Supreme I wanted to take a different route.
Except I don't think Jean needs to get wild to be with Logan. She can still be with him, using that special passion that defines her to carry it. However, they simply don't compliment each other enough to make it work long term. They can make it work to some extent and that's what I did. I pushed it as far as I could until the latest issue.
I hope that when Jean returns in the comics the writers don't try to force her with Logan or something because that really would ruin her character. She's too passionate and caring a person to get that messed up. She deserves better and until Marvel does it on their end, I'll try to do her justice on mine.
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DeleteSorry about back tracking here, but I was looking through the Jean Grey posts you've done within the past year and I was glad to have come across this particular article. I used to be a hardcore Jean/Logan fan but it wasn't until the Age of Apocalypse series that I truly loved them as a couple. Indeed when Jean comes back to the 616 universe, having her hook up with Logan wouldn't make any sense at this point. There's too much going on with the X-Men and with Logan showing up in all of the Marvel titles and Jean's relationship with the Phoenix and possible connection with Hope, it wouldn't do well to just pair them together all of a sudden.
ReplyDeleteIn AoA these two characters have been given time to develop feelings for each other and readers have seen the history of this development. X-Men Forever totally messed up this opportunity for them and not only that, but their personalities were just messed up (Jean acting all needy and slutty and Logan coming off as super emotional and shallow). So when shipping Jean/Logan, I stick with AoA where not only are they still an item, but Jean's alive and leading the X-Men.
BTW the Jean/Logan relationship in your story is working out very well for me so far. There's no loose ends, just two people who care deeply for each other and are dating. Why can't the Marvel writers do the same with their characters? Why must everything be overly complicated, or take a sturdy relationship that went through hell and back and ruin it because a higher up thinks a relationship ages a character?
JEAN and LOGAN forever!!!
ReplyDeleteAgreed Jean and Logan have so much potential and their connection is way deeper and makes you really want to root for their pairing .Anti hero and his phoenix by his side.I just hate it when scotty fan boys try to push hard their snoozy boring nothing to look forward relationship on to our throats.Its like they try hard to convience us to like Jean and scott which is quite psychotic behaviour to be honest.
DeleteSorry "Anonymous," but saying Jean and Logan forever is like saying the Cleveland Browns are the best football team in the past twenty years. I get that they have their fans, but their enthusiasm doesn't make reality any less a bitch.
ReplyDeleteJack we are discussing comic book Character dont bring reality into it and just because its not at par your opinion doesn't mean its wrong and dont try to force other to change their option if dont like the pair please dont read anything about them dont try to force others to change their opinion.
DeleteGeez Jack take a chill pill. He was expressing his personal feelings, Not trying to make something into a reality.
ReplyDeleteI know that. But this is my blog. I do maintain the right to point out personal feelings I don't agree with in a drunken, insensitive manner. Nothing personal. That's just what happens when you give a drunk his own blog.
DeleteJack
If you can't be drunk in your own blog where can you be?
ReplyDeleteI like what you said as to Logan being the foil to Scott, that's pretty much right on the money from when I was reading Uncanny X-Men back in the 80's and early 90's. Can't comment beyond those years as I quit collecting when Claremont left but to me the relationship was always one-sided. Logan loved the hell out of Jean, but she didn't return the feelings, at least not to the extent that he cared for her. That didn't ruin their characters in my opinion though, it heightened them (who hasn't been in that situation at least once?) but I do agree that it would become stale over time if mishandled. Thanks for the good read.
Thanks for the comment! But I disagree that the whole relationship didn't ruin their characters. It turned Jean Grey into basically a walking dick-warmer for Wolverine that he could never use and it turned Wolverine into Edward fucking Cullen. This is part of what ruined the movie. I mean how much do these to really have in common? I get that opposites attract sometimes in relationships, but how the fuck would their relationship even work? Wolverine is never around. He's always running off. And if you were to change that, then he wouldn't be fucking Wolverine. I think this relationship seriously damaged their characters by turning Wolverine into Edward Cullen and Jean Grey into more of a plot device than a character.
DeleteJack
I always felt that jean and scott belong togtheir. They seem to have the better chemistry, and a better overall understanding of eachother. I think she reminds Logan of Rose who looks like her, and that is why their is this constant sexual tension.He doesn't really love her it is just lust.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I got that sense too with the Rose connection. That's why I incorporated it into X-men Supreme. But Marvel hasn't really explored that and I doubt they will. I think it all comes down to what relationship could actually work. Wolverine is like James Bond in that if you put him in a relationship, it basically undermines his character. He's a loner. He's not Edward fucking Cullen. Nuff said!
DeleteJack
The above argumentative discussions... pray, what's the eventual purpose of it all, Jack?
ReplyDeleteI don't comprehend this fervor. Isn't the Cyclops-Jean Grey relationship canon? Doesn't that turn the Wolverine-Jean Grey relationship into a menage-a-trios (something comics and fan-fiction writers are passionate about, and yet seriously detrimental a model to real human relationships)?
I once thought the X Men writers made Jean and Scott as soul-mates, back when these two acted as it mentally bonded... before that landmark retro-introduction of Jean's death. Since then, with the flux in dynamics of how successive writers viewed this relationship and Scott's repeated extra-marital affairs, one could have justifiably believed he was the erring party.
Your discussion is progressively making Jean present herself equally guilty. And it's confusing me why?
Well the purpose here is that the Wolverine/Jean relationship is made out to be more passionate and more salient than it really is. I mean if you watch the movies, it gives the impression that Cyclops and Jean Grey didn't have the history they had in the comics. And it ignores the premise of why Marvel tried to hook Jean and Wolverine up in the first place. Claremont has said it outright. He wanted them together because he didn't like Cyclops anymore. That's NOT a good reason to hook two characters up. And it seems as though at every turn Marvel tries to use Jean and Wolverine as if their relationship was more meaningful than it really was.
DeleteAnd while Cyclops's "affair" was egregious, I don't think Jean was blameless. Cyclops married Jean's clone. I mean is that even technically cheating? Also, Jean swapped spit with Wolverine a number of times. But Cyclops never exchanged more than thoughts with Emma Frost. Even Jean concedes that Cyclops never cheated. He only thought about it. And since when are thought crimes the same as cheating? Also, Emma took on Jean's appearance in those thoughts. So he was still thinking of Jean the whole time. I think it's not quite as clear cut. Both were responsible and I think the Phoenix was really the driving force behind splitting them up. But that's an argument for another blog post.
Thanks for the comment.
Jack
Honestly, not to be a pain but not only do I not agree with Jean/Logan but I actually kinda hate it. If you really knew Logan completely, it's sad to say but he was meant to be alone. A man that's gone through that much pain but can't age or die and that everyone he seems to care about dies, do you really think it's right for Jean to let go of everything for him? I may be being biased considering that I'm in a relationship where I'm Scott and my best friend is Logan and we've been fighting over my girl but put that out of the equation. When you look at Scott and Jean's relationship, a lot of people see them as "boring" but after being in a relationship, what others see as boring is actually quite amazing from experience. When I see Scott/Jean, I can imagine them getting married and having kids and growing old together. It's one true pairing. Logan is a good guy but he needs to accept that Scott and Jean do in fact love each other and he needs to lay off. That's my opinion
ReplyDeleteHi jack, huge compliment to you, been enjoying many articles on this site, though I regret to say that I have barely started on the fan fiction itself. Looking forward to reading more of it.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic, I think the problem is twofold. Firstly, the direction of wolverine in modern marvel is very unclear, perhaps due to the company Beijing over eager to make bags of money from his popularity. Some writers write wolverine as an ultimate badass, impulsive, ass kicking and care free. Others emphasize him as a parental figure. Some put him on constant solo adventures, as a loner. Some put him as an ultimate soldier, executing orders perfectly. At the same time he is portrayed as a leader, of a school and a team no less. This extends to whether he should ever have a relationship; is he a tragic hero who must always have things taken from him, or is he someone with a checkered past and finally found peace and stability? Is he about instincts, or about controlling his instincts with samurai values?
The other in Jean's portrayal. She is almost designed as a support for Scott, the one to support him as a leader, the one to smooth his mind. She is much defined by how she cared for and reached out to Scott. Either Scott or the Phoenix.
She has such rich history and potential however, and therein lies the problem: is Scott holding her character back?
DeletePersonally my answer to the two issues above is this: I prefer wolverine as a samurai, restraining his instincts, and maturing, getting more in control of his animal instincts. For jean I think she needs to e her own character, without Phoenix and Scott, and even without Logan. The way I see it, jean needs to come back, and be single, be herself for a year or so. Explore her character, her omega level potential. A bit like the aoa jean in x-force. Wolverine needs to stop hating cyclops, be a good leader, find peace from his school, while stop trying to stab everything he sees. Then they can start a relationship.
On jean's side, this is perhaps what all new x-men is doing. On Logan's side, not so much, as he is going to die soon I heard. May be once he comes back from his comic book death. But a teenage jean and hundred years old Logan is horrible. So guess I will never see what I want here.
Thank you very much for the comments guys. I usually don't get them on articles that are five years old. lol I agree that there seems to be an uncertainty over how to use Wolverine. On one hand, he's the ultimate loner. On the other, he's the respectable headmaster of a school. It really is a disconnect. I personally don't think he needs to fit into one label. I think he can be that badass, but with a role like headmaster. I look at the first arc of Amazing X-men or Jason Aaron's Wolverine and the X-men and see plenty of moments where Wolverine can make this persona work. However, his relationships are a bit more complicated.
DeleteUntil recently, Wolverine couldn't age or grow old with anyone. And he never stuck around long enough to really be a stable kind of guy. I think that's a big reason why he and Jean Grey could never work. He doesn't stick around with her or the team because he's always off fighting his own battles. Jean Grey is not a loner. She has always been defined by her ability to forge powerful relationships with others. Taking those relationships away would be like taking away Wolverine's claws or his bad manners. And I think her relationship with Cyclops complemented that nicely because Cyclops is dedicated and focused, often to a fault. He has his problems, but they're not the same as Wolverine's.
That said, I hate it whenever someone claims Jean Grey should just be single and independent when she comes back. That's a total load of bullshit. Jean Grey is and always has been defined by her passion. The idea of her cutting ties or distancing herself from the people she loves is completely OOC. I'm all for exploring her omega level power. Hell, All New X-men is doing that right now. But she's a character who thrives by forging relationships. She did that in AOA as well. It's part of what makes her so endearing. And I think one of the reasons why she has such great chemistry with Wolverine is because she's able to connect with people that others can't. But good chemistry alone won't make a good relationship.
Jack
hi i'm kind of new here in this blog, so on my opinion i think it could have a little slack about the characters in the comics. so i've seen and read in the x-men movie(all of them) and comic series(some) so kind of understand of everything between jean and logan so no choice thought, but if any story for has at least a like i don't how to say this but have kids or getting married of at least in dreams(for logan) like the that at least.................. sorry 16 yr old here suck at typing and no educational grade(elemetary level) and i'm from the phillipines. pilipino po ako. anonymous blogger from iloilo city.
ReplyDeleteHi all. It's been very rewarding to read this blog and hear intelligent arguments from people on both sides of the aisles on the Jean/Scott/Logan pairing. Here's my opinion: It only takes a single person (like Chris Claremont) or a small group of people to corrupt the original vision of the series and forever change something good into something less savory. What have you gained with Wolverine and Jean Grey? A flashy affair and decent side story that will quickly sell comic books. An opportunity to undermine everyone's integrity. And a off shoot benefit of dedicating even more screen time to Hugh Jackman as Wolverine at the expense of decades of x-men comic history and character building. Though I love the actor's portrayal of Wolverine, admit it -- The X-Men movies were Wolverine plus some other people movies and rewritten around him. Cyclops was turned into a joke for the new generations of fans.
ReplyDeleteThe worst is what was lost:
The chance to forge in comic book history the rare couple you depend on and can count on. Superman and Lois Lane. Peter Parker and Mary Jane. Even Batman and Catwoman. Scott Summers and Jean Grey should be on that list with the others that have become household names.
I'm for Scott and Jean all the way. I hope someday the mud clears and someone grows the balls to portray their marriage and soul-mate partnership in a positive and sustained light.
Thank you very much for taking the time to comment on an article I wrote 4 years ago. lol
DeleteI agree with you completely. Too much of Jean/Wolverine was driven by misguided efforts from small groups of creators, like Chris Claremont. And it really did undermine both their characters, especially in the movies. It completely detracted from the core of who these characters are as individuals. The movies basically made it seem as though this relationship was the most important thing about them. It wasn't. It's not even top 10 in the grand scheme of things. Wolverine was actually much more in love with Mariko Yashida. He almost married her. He never even came close to Jean Grey, yet that relationship is somehow placed on a different level and I think that's just bullshit. I hope that at some point the nature of the Cyclops/Jean relationship will be cleared up. But I'm not holding my breath. Marvel sucks at relationships and until they prove otherwise, I have no faith in their ability to develop one.
Jack
This has been bugging me lately, and I read this blog post a while ago, and came back to say something. Honestly though, the Anon above me nailed it. Scott and Jean simply belong together. They want to follow a similar path in life, they are equally dedicated to what they do. It isn't a case of one holding the other back. They support each other and make each other stronger.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Jean Logan relationship would even be something that commonly crops ups, except for the misguided efforts of one or few writers. It saddens me that we have Claremont to blame, because just about everything he wrote salrier was gold, and defined the X-Men for the better. I read somewhere that he intended to have Scott marry Madelyn and leave the X-Men, moving on with his life. I think the decision to have him come back to Jean and abandon his wife murdered Scott as a character. It completely neutured his independence, drive, and determination, making him nothing more than the wallowing, pitiable ball of angst most other media have presented since. As you say, they became defined by their relationship and nothing more.
As an example of handling their relationship well, I suggest X-Men: Evolution (the animated series) . It gets back to looking at them as teenagers so, while it can be a little melodramatic at times, you see how the relationship really starts, why it is there, who they mean to each other.
I have to confess I don't read many comics now. They are expensive, and often just upsetting. The X-Men are my favorite super team, unquestionably, and I just have no desire to delve into their world as it stands now. However, I still love the characters, and still love examining them.
Anyway, I think Jean Logan began as misguided, and I have never seen a place where it wasn't.
make the pheonix the reason for scott jean break up
ReplyDeleteEu amo Jean E Logan.Gostaria de ve-los juntos nos filmes.
ReplyDeletei prefer Wolverine Rogue even though that is not comic canon i feel Rogue can handle Logan better then Jean in the long run. i agree with jack fisher has said. i feel Logan only wants Jean cause shes hot and reminds him of Rose.
ReplyDeleteOne true pairing ? Please it's a work of art it's fiction! My real world relationship is boring "I'm sorry sweetness," but for real it's no head turning train wreck like Jean Scott or logan ! i think Jean logan is bullshit but only cus it's made to be a game Logan is playing he don't love her he just wants to get one over on cyclops !
ReplyDeleteLogan is not short and ferry like he used to be! He's a manly man with a huge cockula that's always hard "that's in the comics I swear" ! "It really really is super hard " but "only for that kinda boring chick jenn of somthin' screw her ""I can look more fit then her if I just tuck in my gut a bit and fix my saggy...." And so on !lol it's just simple the new wolverine is a hottie for the females they get wet as fuck and go looking for man meat !" Me!!! Here! I'm not a goody goody guy with raybans ! " or Thats what he has been made into its very sad I must say what a waste of a character fleshed out over years of work and creativity ! And not just Scott but wolverine has been jackmanized and turned emo ,lol jean is a red light whore and for what ? It's cus Scott isn't sexy so he is losing out to a hot bad boy stereotype placed over the former wolverine!
ReplyDeleteJean says "if you had nuts on the wall would they be wall nuts ? "Logan thinks "dumb bitch needs chin nuts!"
ReplyDeleteLogan don't fall for chicks he fucks chicks Logan 101 here ! he isn't love stays ! he is log em an leave em ! Slap slam thank y'all mame kinda man ! he don't stay anywhere long he can't its in his blood to move like a wolf or feral animal ! He also has lived so long he ain't thinking love he has needs that it I could see that changing but only if he met a mate a true mate for him like more then a white red head a different kind like him and his own!
Jean e Logan como casal não dá!Eu não consigo vê-los assim, mas para quem gosta dos dois como casal a revolta pela maneira como os roteiristas tratam a "relação" deles deve ser grande.
ReplyDeleteWhen she has an orgasm wolves can regenerate when she goes all Phoenix. She would kill Scott at some point. He's eat and no power but his eyes but wolves regenerates has super high tolerance for pain and loves her more than anyone. And she does love him so does the Phoenix. After tge Phoenix disappears in old days he gets with storm in future about nows tome period. Got the ge comics and cards. She was alone Scott was best choice until the day her and wolverine saw each other. End of conversation end if debate. Its so obvious. And again he's the only one that can survive her
ReplyDeleteWeak not eat
DeleteAny debate is redundant. I won't be back to see it anyway and I've handed you the fact all the way from 70s to present uts been this way. She hid it better as notto hurt Scott but wolves dint care he told him. It's her decision and you cannot handle what she really is. Schools out and I bet Stan Lee would agree
DeleteAnd another note the movies fuck up. Gambit and rogue were in love but coukd not touch til later not frigging ice pussy man. And she Flys and has super strength
ReplyDeleteX-Men forever was pretty good, but they killed wolverine off so quickly and then Jean goes with Beast he gets killed and then at the end winds up right back with Scott telling him She will always be there for him.
ReplyDeleteThat is part of the reason I don't like the two of them together lol. I love me some Wolverine, but when it comes it comes to Jean Grey man it just ruins who he is and it always comes off as forced. Every time She's not paired off with Scott whose next 99% of the time? Logan. It's like its just done just for no other rhyme or reason but to not have her either be her own standing character or be paired off with Cyclops. Im not against them being together just always comes off as forced and weird for a man as cool as logan to be sniffing and lingering around his teammates woman waiting for it go wrong so he can step in and take her.
lol He deserves better than that. And it honestly makes him come off like a bitch. Who wants to be on a team with a man like this constantly.
Claremont put them together out of spite because he disliked a character who was written to be a certain way, its not like Cyclops himself up and decided to leave his way he was written to do so in order to have something happen to get Pryor out of the picture. Wolverine and Jean is just result of spite. The Pheonix ruined Jean grey just how Apocalypse ruined Scott in New X-men, Wolverine is just always come off as they guy who pretends to be your friend but secretly wants to screw your girl behind you back and he is too cool for that too.
I prefer logan far away from Jean Grey because he gets weird and to see them together its like its done either for spite, just to say oh hey Wolverine is screwing yet another woman in marvel another notch on his belt, oh he's the man. Or People do it just to say oh hey look my Jean Grey is different she's with Logan not Cyclops. Its rarely interesting becauuse if Jean is not paired off with Scott, whose the next guy in line to be with her.. Logan. I say either Leave Jean with Scott and let their relationship serve as something that can work when two people work as lovers and best friends to create a foundation or just leave her single and stand o her own. They been playing on this for years, not to mention Wolverine gets enough shine as it is being one of the more popular marvel characters, I think its time they gave him a rest, the man mystery is gone and now its become oh great wolverine again, how they ruin his life this time around, how many of kids does he accidently kill this time. Just let me the man find peace knowing he loved Mariko, or whoever and just let it be. They rode the wave long enough and this is from someone who loves wolverine. Cyclops is coo, but too uptight. TBH My favorite cyclops and wolverine was X-men Evolution, the one place Wolverine was not a weirdo for Jean Grey and while the violence he carries out was toned down, he was still cool as hell.
How do you figure Jean is the one who comes out looking bad?
ReplyDeleteScott and Jean are dating.
Wolverine joins the team.
Jean becomes Phoenix (or however you'd put it, given the retcon).
Wolverine has feelings to Jean, but only the audience knows.
Dark Phoenix Saga. Jean dies.
Cyclops leaves the team, gets married to a Jean Grey lookalike (does she wind up being an actual clone of Jean?).
Cyclops tries to leave his now pregnant wife and rejoin the X-Men as leader, and Storm kicks his ass, so he goes back to his family.
Retcon. Jean comes back.
Cyclops leaves his wife and child to get back together with Jean.
Inferno. X-Men run into X-Factor everyone thought everyone else was dead or something. Hilarity ensues. Wolverine plants one on Jean. Unless I'm mistaken Cyclops is still technically married at the time. At any rate, Jean doesn't appreciate Wolverine's advances.
X-tinction Agenda. Jean kisses Wolverine because she thinks he's going to die. It's a largely solemn moment.
Scott and Jean get married.
At some point Scott gets possessed by Apocalypse or some such and when the X-Men get him back, he's not quite the same.
In a moment of weakness, while talking to him about her fears about Cyclops and their marriage, Jean kisses Wolverine. Wolverine pushes her away.
Cyclops has a psychic affair with Emma Frost.
Jean finds out and kicks Emma's ass, but before much can else can come of it...
Jean dies for real. Or at least for a real long time.
Scott and Emma literally make out on her grave.
But you're right. Clearly, Jean is a "skank." She's the problem in this relationship.
leave the whole Logan thing alone but Didn't scott cheated on Jean multiple times and yet the writers wrote her character like taht she needs to go back to him for the sake of it yet the Scott jean shipper behave like he is the one for her.I am pretty sure Jean has her own will and feelings the. Just exist to be with scott ..most the comments are men who tried to force their will on the women what she needs to feel and who she needs to be .i agree with you they just wasted her potential to be goat rather then she became cheating scotts wife and thas it done for her.
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