Tuesday, August 27, 2013

Romance In Comics - The Twilight Factor

For some reason back in the early 90s, it was decided by a bunch of heroin-addicted dope-heads that love was no longer "cool." Love in movies and love in comics became the kind of shit you only tolerated in hopes that it would get a woman horny enough to bone. Now I don't know who the fuck decided this or why the fuck people agreed to it. But it has led to a generation of shitty love stories that have affected how relationships in comics are portrayed.

Now anyone who has followed this blog in a soberish state of mind knows I tend to make Twilight jokes every now and then. However, I don't deny that Twlight has made a metric fuckton of money and has channeled the hormones of millions of fans, most of them probably women. Guys like me can make jokes about how lame and gay the Twilight saga was, but at the end of the day Stephanie Meyer, Kirsten Stewart, and Robert Pattinson can laugh all the way to the bank and shit in gold toilets while bloggers like me are stuck shitting in his neighbors basement because a plumber is too fucking expensive.

The love story in Twilight was cliched, gimmicky, mushy, and utterly unrealistic. Now every woman seems to want every guy to be Edward fucking Cullen in that she wants to be the complete center of a man's attention. To hell with whatever else they may have a passion for, they want a super-powered, super-attractive rich pretty boy to take care of them. For men, that would be like wanting to have a woman who looked like a perpetual 22-year-old Pamela Anderson whose sole purpose in life was to refine her blow-job techniques on them and them alone. My point is this is an unreasonable standard and it shows in comics.

I've done more than my share of ranting on relationships in my reviews. And no matter how drunk they may be, I stand by them. Even before Twilight became the object of every tween's obsession, romance in comic books was subdued. It was always secondary to battles against giant robots, monsters, and killer aliens. And that makes sense because that tends to be what resonates with young men. They like seeing shit blow up and they like seeing women with big tits. If romance somehow works its way into the story, then that's okay. Contrary to popular belief, men do have a taste for romance. But it's secondary. And men will embrace that romance if it makes the story more compelling in between explosions. Case and point, Superman and Wonder Woman.

And panties everywhere became very moist.
This romance actually got national attention because until recently, it was just fodder for fanfiction authors and ideas about superhero sex. But DC decided to do something different with their New 52 and give this couple that had always been hinted at a chance. They didn't go the Twilight route. It wasn't love at first sight and there was no creepy obsession. Superman didn't loom over Wonder Woman's bed at night watching her sleep and Wonder Woman didn't tattoo his name on her inner thigh. In fact, it's a relationship that has been somewhat underdeveloped because it always is secondary to the other shit that goes on in Justice League and their respective comics. Again, DC understands that a lot of young readers still respond to shit blowing up and killer aliens.

Then recently, DC announced that they were going to start a Superman/Wonder Woman series. And rather than be a secondary side-plot in Justice League, this relationship would actually take center stage. It's something comics haven't done in a while. The last comic that really focused on romance was Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, a comic so watered down that might as well have been packaged with a My Little Pony toy. It wasn't billed as a mature relationship. But Superman/Wonder Woman is supposed to change that.

You'll never see them discuss webbing condoms in this series.
According to DC's Charles Soule and Tony Daniel, Superman/Wonder Woman is supposed to explore their relationship both in and out of costume. Because beyond only a few issues, Superman and Wonder Woman haven't really been shown developing as a normal couple. In fact, very few superheroes show that sort of development. Not since the early days of Cyclops/Jean or Peter/Mary Jane have comics taken time to show how these relationships become the epic love stories that lead to so much smut fanfiction on the internet. It's a major change of pace, which lead Tony Daniel to say at the Toronto Fan Expo recently that, "he was looking for something that appeals to women, "that hits on the Twilight audience." Well apparently, that was a very poor choice of words because the mere mention of Twilight to comic book fans is like mentioning President Obama to the Tea Party crowd. They really don't need much to go ape-shit. And for some reason, it required an article by Newsarama to clear things up.

One of DC Comics' top-tier artists said publicly that he wanted his next comic to be something that appeals to women, so female comic fans and their supporters should be ecstatic, right?

Well… not necessarily, especially when the words "Twilight" and "romance" are involved.

At a panel during Toronto's Fan Expo this past weekend, former Batman writer/artist Tony Daniel was describing the type of book he wanted to draw for his next project, saying he was looking for something that appeals to women, "that hits on the Twilight audience." He said his newest comic, Superman/Wonder Woman, fit the bill.

"I mentioned maybe, can we create a book that targets a little bit more of the female readership that’s been growing? And maybe a book that has a little bit of romance in it, a little bit of sex appeal, you know, something that would, for lack of a better example, that hits on the Twilight audience," Daniel said he told his editors. "Millions of people went to see those [Twilight films] in the theaters because [they had] those kind of, you know, subject matter: the drama, the characterization with love triangles and forbidden love...

"Literally, a month later they asked me, 'Hey, what do you think of Superman/Wonder Woman?' And I think it took all of maybe three seconds for me to say, 'Yeah, that’s great. Let’s do that.' Because that’s exactly what I was describing that we need," Daniel said.

In current DC stories, Superman and Wonder Woman are involved in a relationship, and the Superman/Wonder Woman that launches in October (from Daniel and writer Charles Soule) will incorporate their burgeoning relationship.

Although the comic should be highly anticipated, since it stars two of DC's best-selling characters, the Twilight reference didn't sit well with some people in the internet comics community. In fact, it got enough of a reaction that The Hollywood Reporter picked up the story.

Some wondered if Daniel meant that Wonder Woman herself "pulls in the Twilight demo." Others worried that the statement implied women only want to read romances. "I’m headdesking at how the thought process is to go to the automatic idea that women just want romance," blogger Ami Angelwings wrote.

On the self-described "girl geek" fan site The Mary Sue, a blogger noted that a fan at the panel who called herself "Liz" asked a follow-up question about whether DC was only making the book romantic in its appeal to women.

 After a joke about drawing "butt shots" of Superman, Daniel clarified that Wonder Woman is "very strongly written, she’s not, you know, I mean she holds her own. And you’re going to like the interaction between Superman and Wonder Woman as well as their private lives, Diana and Clark. I mean, we have a lot of fun with their interactions and we’re going to have that drama. And on different levels, there’s a lot of layers to it that make it, you know, a little bit more of a more enjoyable book for me to draw and I’m sure for Charles. We’re both doing something kind of new with this, so it has a perfect recipe, I think, and it’s something I really want to do. I really think you’re going to like it a lot. Let me know. Just get on Facebook, let me know."

The fan wasn't convinced, and she wrote about it on a blog on io9. She also told The Mary Sue, "I know I don’t speak for every woman, but I think I can with this statement: All we want are good, well written characters and stories."

This is the second time this week that disdain for Twilight has shown up on comic book sites, as many fans reacted to a redesign of the DC character Lobo by comparing his look to Twilight vampire Edward Cullen. "Maybe he will sparkle too," one fan posted.

But to be fair, the creators behind Superman/Wonder Woman have made it clear over the last few months since the project was announced that their book is not just a romance. In June, Newsarama asked writer Soule about the dangers of writing a comic that's only based around two characters in a romance, and he answered:

"It's not the next Before Midnight movie. The book is, at its heart, a huge, epic, action-filled story. I mean, you have to have that with these characters, with the things these people can do, what these characters are outfittedly capable of, and then the types of guys that come gunning for them. It's going to be huge. I wouldn't necessarily want to write or read a book that was them sitting in the back of a taxi having an argument or something like that.

The stories will be written on a scale that befits these characters. But at the same time, I personally think it's fascinating to think about what they would say to each other, what they talk about, the way they have different approaches to solving the world's problems. I think that's grounds that have been sometimes explored here and there — I mean, there are books that have walked down this sort of path — but I think there's a lot more that can be said. And that's one of the things that really interested me about the project in the first place. And I look forward to exploring it."

Daniel also told Newsarama:

 "To be honest, I'm a pretty happy camper with this book, because it fits all my interests and tells a good story. All the things I'll be drawing and the story we're telling here is really almost tailor-made for me. I'm just really excited to get the chance to do these characters and all the different types of moments I'm going to be able to do, and each character's development, and the drama between the characters. I love that kind of stuff. I love to read it. And now I get to draw that, as well as the big action set pieces, and these gigantic battles we have with shared villains and new villains.

"It's just a really big, intergalactic, Christmas kind of thing. I can just go to town and have a blast with it."

So let me see if I can process this shit in a semi-sober mind...DC wants to do something that appeals to more than just the typical male readers who only want big boobs and explosions. So they create a book centered around a relationship between their two most popular characters because as Twilight has shown, romance does resonate with a certain crowd of women. And somehow they're assholes for doing that? That's like getting pissed at your accountant for using a calculator.

Now maybe referencing Twilight wasn't very smart because fans by default scoff at Twilight the same way they scoff at Michael Bay movies, ignoring of course that they both make a fuck-ton of money. But the logic is not flawed. Fans actually do care a lot about these characters and that extends to whoever they're hooking up with. That's why fans can get so pissed off when Marvel completely erases the Spider-Man/Mary Jane relationship from history or when they just randomly hook two characters up for no reason.

Case and point.
And this is a big problem. It seems that comics these days don't give enough fucks to actually develop romantic relationships between characters. They either have to just hook them up randomly, have them bone like extras on a porno set, or try to break them up. There's no middle ground. There's nothing deeper. That has been Marvel's biggest problem and one DC hasn't done much better on until recently. It seemed like the only thing Marvel could do with relationships is try to break them up or just conjure some epic love story that happened off-panel, namely the bullshit Storm/Black Panther relationship. And when that approach is taken, we get relationships that have about as much depth as an episode of Two and a Half Men. That is to say there's no real romance. It's just phony drama and masturbation fodder for fans.

This did not end well for them or for Charlie Sheen.
Now I know I don't come off as much of a romantic on this blog. And because romance just isn't "cool" in the eyes of today's cynical hipster douche-bag, we're not going to get the kinds of stories that show more developed relationships. In a ways, only Superman and Wonder Woman can pull it off at this point because they both have such a high profile. One just had a movie that grossed over $600 million and the other is the epitome of a female superhero, albeit one that has been screwed out of a movie to the point where we'll see Rocket Racoon before we see her on the big screen. But I digress.

The point is that Superman and Wonder Woman have a chance to do the kind of shit that we never saw with Cyclops/Emma Frost or Storm/Black Panther. DC can actually try and take the time to show how these two characters come together and develop a relationship that can't be summed up within a single episode of a shitty sitcom. And if some women take offense to DC trying this shit after Twilight made so much fucking money from it, then I have only one question. What the fuck is the alternative? Were these women really satisfied with how relationships like Cyclops/Emma or Storm/Black Panther were portrayed? If so, then why the fuck didn't they support them to the same extent they supported Twilight? My point is these pissed off female fans have nobody to blame but themselves.

At the end of the day, romance in comics will continue to be secondary for as long as young men keep buying them more than women. But women have shown with Twilight that they can and will fork over huge chunks of cash for a love story that they feel resonates with them. And DC is trying to do that while Marvel continues to have its dick stuck in the same hose, only focusing on romance when it involves breaking two characters up or having them bone. I, for one, applaud DC for making this bold leap. I really do hope that female fans respond to it because I don't care for the current status quo when it comes to romance in comics. I don't want to see anymore Cyclops/Emma or Storm/Black Panther relationships. We don't need that kind of overt titillation in the age of internet porn.

It's up to you, ladies. It's either this or more of Emma Frost's tits.
So here's to hoping that Superman/Wonder Woman successful to the point where fans can stop citing Twilight as the only type of epic love story. In the same way no good can ever come from women expecting their boyfriends to be Edward Cullen, no good can ever come from comics treating relationships like a fling with Charlie Sheen. Nuff said!


  1. I would take your opinion more seriously if you could do it without swearing and trash talking.

    Regardless of what YOU think of Twilight, it appeals to women and that in and of itself makes it valid. For decades, comics have appealed to the male fantasy of women, why shouldn't they appeal to the female fantasy of the sensitive guy with the woman who can be his equal?

    Geek is geek in my opinion. Whether your fantasy world is Metropolis, Hogwarts, the Shire, or Forks. We all know what it's like to have someone bash your fandom. It blows. Don't trash Twilight because YOU don't like it or don't understand it. Be civil. Be polite. No one is asking you to like it, but if you haven't read the series, how do you know what it is or isn't? Lots of people say comics are trite nowdays too and overly sexist. They aren't without criticism either, but to fans- it's everything! SO, be cool. Let's hope SM/WW is its own thing. I don't want it to copy anything. I want it to be unique, well-written and display lots of great action, characterization, beautiful art, and even a little romance.

    1. Sorry if all the swearing makes you ignore my points, but it's my blog. I'll say fuck as many times as I want because I feel it helps me get my point across. I don't deny that Twilight appeals to a woman's fantasy. But there have been sensitive guys in comics for years. Peter Parker was once a sensitive guy who was always unlucky in love. But he eventually found his equal...until Marvel fucked it up. I only trash Twilight in the sense that it that it is held up as this ideal that has created this backlash towards romance in general. Now relationships in comics seem to avoid anything overly romantic because of Twilight. And I think that's just bullshit.

    2. Hahha...good for you.

      The soap boxing by a small, small section ( they do not speak for all women either) of some really piss me off and this last storm in a tea cup as far as I am concerned is an indictment of their comprehension of English.

  2. These women complaining are angry bitter Lois Lane fans. If this book was about Superman and Lois Lane they would be all over this in pure joy but since it's SMWW they will hate and criticize it no matter what. Go to the blogs and tumblr of the ones criticizing a book that hasn't been released yet and you'll find they are from pro Lois Lane sites

    1. You may be right. This may be a case where DC is just trying to tap into the romantic crowd at a time when they happen to be hooking up Superman and Wonder Woman. I think it could be any number of factors at this point. But the problem is that romance in comics has been given a bad name in the past decade. Too many relationships are either deeply pornographic or too underdeveloped to take seriously. That's why I'm glad DC is trying a different approach. Maybe it'll start a trend that Marvel can follow and possibly fuck up.


  3. "It's up to you, ladies. It's either this or more of Emma Frost's tits."

    I find it funny that to try to win the females opinions you use this kind of comment. The problem most ladies (including myself and at least the ones I know) have with the Cyclops/Emma relationship was never Emma's tits, it's how Cyclops-centered their story became. Superman/Wonderwoman has everything to be great, but the moment writers decide to turn WonderWoman into Superman's cheerleader, it's not a good relationship anymore.
    I absolutely despise when men try to speak up for women and use this kind of sexist rationale to do so. I find it great that we have sex-positive characters like Emma Forst, believe it or not not all women are prudes, but I hate how marvel has ruined her for the sake of Cyclops, and still it's somehow her fault!
    I have checked the Emma Frost tag in your site and I noticed something interesting in your most recent review of Uncanny X-Men (#11): you mention Emma Frost a total of 5 times: 1 of them is about her diamond skin, that's ok. The other 4 are all sex-related, with 3 of them being about how awesome Cyclops is for boning her (and Jean Grey) and that he deserves respect for that. So, when we're talking about Cyclops, his relationship with her is something completely positive, something he deserves respect for, but when we're talking about how lacking their relationship was, that's on Emma? Have you ever thought that this is the kind of view that turns women off? Not how sexy a female character is, but how she's used as a way to validate the man, to be a trophy for the male character?

    It's your site and I understand I can just leave, and I know what I think doesn't matter, but in my humble opinion, the quote right below Superman/Wonderwoman should be:

    "It's up to you, ladies. It's either this or more indulgence for characters like Cyclops at the cost of detriment for their significant other."

    If you visited Emma's fansites or forums, you'd realise a good portion of Emma fans have been very unhappy with her portrayal since Fraction or a bit before him, and the main problem I see is how the relationship was always in his POV. Most Emma fans that I know were happy when the Schism was happening and it looked like she was going with Wolverine, but, oh, turns out she stayed with Cyclops on the basis that she was in love with him. The writer made a point to say how big of a sacrifice she was doing by selling her company, which could be good development for her, but you know what? Nothing came of that. All subsequent stories had her as Cyclops' arm-candy.
    Then comes AvX. Emma was the only Phoenix Five that ASKED FOR HELP when she started losing control, yet Cyclops literally left her on the desert where she was trying to keep herself in check, and what does marvel wants us to believe? That Cyclops was the last one in control of himself. So wait a minute, when he left Emma on the desert he was still in control right? Then how is she the problem if he ignored her when she literally asked for help (and you know that since it's emma Frost asking for help it means something). And at the end of the story, when writers wanted to put the two at odds, they not only had Emma eating human flesh (WTF?) they also made her reveal she had sex with Namor in the most random of times just so it would be ok for Cyclops to stab her in the back. Can you imagine all the dudebros high-fiving when he put that bitch down?
    And when new writers like Brian Wood (someone who actually writes good female characters, and look, they're still sexy and most women still like it!) tried to take her, marvel said no, because apparently she's better as Cyclops' love interest.

    R.I.P. Emma Frost, another woman thrown in the refrigerator for her male counterpart, and it's still your tits fault!!!

    1. I realise I wrote a tad much, but just to summarize what I just wrote, the problem I have with the article is that, looking at your site, I see you mentioning Emma's looks, many times using that as an example of Cyclops' "awesomeness", yet when you have the opportunity to write something more thoughtful, and worse, something that's supposedly directed at women, you use that same relationship that you so often mention to indulge Cyclops' character as an example of what's wrong, and you still put the blame on Emma. That's a double standard.

      These comics are about superheroes. Women want characters they can look up to as well. Characters that take center stage and are not there just to boost the males reputation. Some women look up to Kitty Pryde for example, but some women also look up to Emma Frost, which is why you see so many cosplays of her in cons. Attributting the problems of the relationship to the sexy aspect of a character who has been that way for 3 decades, while completely ignoring how one-sided their relationship has been in favor of Cyclops - while at the same time you praise him for boning her - makes it hard to take this article seriously.

    2. I'm not sure I understand your overall point. I mention Emma Frost's looks a lot because her looks are a big part of her character. She's vain, she's superficial, and she doesn't give a damn about anyone who points that out to her either. Not a lot of women have that kind of attitude. And I actually agree with you. She was watered down a great deal to accommodate Cyclops. That was one of the reasons I didn't like that relationship. But you do ignore one important aspect about that relationship. Cyclops was leader of the X-men. He was the one that the X-men followed into battle and that included Emma Frost. Like it or not, not a lot of X-men trust Emma Frost the same way they trust Cyclops. That's just simple logistics. I don't put the blame on Emma Frost. I put the blame on how their relationship was underdeveloped. It had no more depth than a porno and Marvel never really tried to make it more than that. And I think that is how comics have approached relationships. Look at Mary Jane. She was a supermodel. Look at Black Cat and Catwoman. They're both super vixens. There's no effort to make those relationships deeper and that's why they don't resonate with women or even men for that matter. I don't need my relationships in comic books to be overly pornographic. That's what porn is for. Nuff sid!


    3. i don't have a problem with you mentioning her looks (even said her being a sex-positive character was a good thing). All I tried to point out is how contradictory it is when you say you want more depth from relationships while you repeatedly applaud Cyclops for 'hitting that'. How can you say it doesn't resonate with men if you praise Cyclops based on who he has made love with? That's exactly the kind of reaction marvel wants.
      My point is that sexuality isn't the problem women have per see (which is what you imply when you say it's either this or more of Emma Frost's tits). The two images you posted of Diana have her dressed in what is basically bondage gear while Superman is covered from neck to toe, if women's only problem was the way the comics females look, those images by themselves would be a major turn off.

      I'm surprised to read you agree with me that Emma was watered down to accommodate her relationship with Cyclops, and this just makes matters worse for me. When I first read your article, it seemed to me that you were truly trying to rationalize with the women in question, that you were trying to understand their view on this matter and was trying to convince them that SM/WW relationship can be a good thing. Now that I know your stand on Emma's situation, it seems like this article is just a jab at people who disagree with you on the matter. I mean:

      You are making a post directed at women... so of course you'll point out things that women are interested in... you want to compare Sm/WW to one of the marvel couples... you think Emma has been watered down for the sake of Cyclops... IT'S EITHER THIS OR MORE OF EMMA FROST'S TITS?!!
      Sorry for the caps, but seriously, is it that hard to imagine that maybe women's problem is the female in question being purposefully watered down for the sake of the relationship she's in? We live in a world where women can finally express their desire (and need) for sex, tits are not the problem, Black Cat and Catwoman being super vixens is not the problem either. If you were trying to communicate with the women in question wouldn't be in better taste to simply point out Emma's mischaracterization instead of her tits? It looks like I'm nitpicking, with me constantly repeating a single line of your whole text, but a flaw like this can ruin a whole argument. It's like speaking against homophobia and then ending your speech with a joke about gay people. It's not that your argument becomes less valid because of it, it's just that it won't resonate with the people you're talking to.

      I'll take my leave as to not waste your or my time, as I feel we're not going anywhere. Just like you don't understand what women see in series like Twilight, some women won't understand what you're getting at. Labeling some relationship as porn while constantly praising the male for his sex life doesn't make sense in my head, for example.

    4. News flash Mr. Anonymous, men are VISUAL creatures. And Emma Frost basically caters to every visual stereotype men have about women. But she once had an attitude and a personality that helped make her even more appealing. Then she was paraded around as Cyclops's arm candy, effectively changing her personality to make that more palatable. That was an example of a relationship done poorly in a comic. So when I say "It's either this or more of Emma Frost's tits," that's what I mean. Because the books are catering to male demographics because they actually BUY these comics. You don't sell something to a certain demographic without catering to what they like and men are so visual that they're going to gravitate towards Emma Frost way more than Bella Swan. If women want to change that, they need to start buying comics that actually reflect good portrayals of women. And it looks like that's what they'll get with Superman/Wonder Woman. And if they refuse to buy it and it goes back to big breasts and bondage, then it's their own damn fault.


  4. Relationships in comics... it's not the most important thing for me but for it to exist adds some character development besides fighting bad guys, real life, etc...
    Sometimes it is interesting to see relationships between superheroes, for Superman and Wonder Woman to have one is appealing because it only happened in some fanfiction writing, and now with the New 52 they develop this relationship with the opportunity for a lot of fans to read it and perhaps make a solid one with the new series.

    As for the Spider-Man/Mary Jane case, I prefer not to talk about it, it's not that I was a fan of their relationship, the problem was with how it ended. If they get together again I could care less seeing how Marvel tends to fuck up this kind of relationships.
    And for the Cyclops/Emma Frost relationship, I had mixed feelings with that one, I remember how a lot of people disliked Cyclops for getting together with Emma Frost and how Jean died and maybe how a lot of people think it was unfair and so on, but when the Cyke/Emma relationship started it was weird for me to see but I started to like it and it was not just because it was a very good looking couple but it showed how much depth the characters could have together and apart when they were interacting with other characters. When that relationship started to get stale and like you've said many times "a bad porno-like movie relationship" it got to a point where I couldn't care if they broke up or whatever happened (Fraction had to do with a lot of it). Now, to be fair with both sides and with how the writers developed the relationship, both characters some fault with how things ended, and to be honest it was the better thing that happened to their social status. And reading the comment above about AvX, you got a point Jack, Cyclops was the leader of the X-Men which included Emma, and I'm not trying to bash her character but seeing as how things went she was abusing others with her power, meanwhile Cyclops was provoked by the bunch of Avengers and the rest of the X-Men that were fighting at their side, that's why he became so desperate and took the power form her and the rest is history.

    So who's to blame? The characters or the writers?

    1. I think you can blame a little of both. I agree that Fraction really fucked up the Cyclops/Emma relationship, turning it into something that even a drunk like me couldn't take seriously. However, this did cater to men who often fantasize about having a deeply pornographic relationship with a beautiful woman like Emma Frost. And in business that's called knowing your customers. So those who are upset at relationships like that might as well be upset about capitalism in general.


  5. Except that this is not the first time DC has focused on romance and the people that oppose this book aren't doing so bc they "hate" romance. This is a straw man argument.

    People oppose this book bc many people feel, rightly, that a book that defines Wonder Woman by a relationship with Superman is problematic at best and insulting at worst. It's not romance people object to. It's THIS relationship. Many people don't like it and frankly I get why.

    This article also ignores that Superman and Lois Lane were Conmitted/engaged for over 20 years in modern continuity and married pre-crisis in the Superman family books. That love story was not a sales stunt nor done to shock. It was a beautiful love story that developed on page for years and culminated in a marriage of equals. Lois was very good at her job and the couple complimented each other in interesting ways as their relationship explored the boundaries of humanity and heroism. So do not pretend that this focus on love is new bc under the pen of great writers there ::was:: a great love story explored with Superman and trying to pretend that it doesn't exist now insults my intelligence as a woman and as a fan.

    Are fans hurt that DC Comics went out of their way to destroy the Supermarriage for this stunt? Of course they are. Rightly so. That doesn't make them worthy of disdain. It's understandable why people are angry. Just as its understandable that people are angry that Wonder Woman has now been thrown to the wolves defined by a relationship with the one man who can overpower her.

    I think you have missed the point entirely as to why women are upset about this book and you have created a straw man in the process loaded with disrespectful commentary in terms of gender issues.

    The only thing more problematic is that Charles Soule retweeted you bc it hammers home again that he doesn't have any real understanding as to why a significant number of women take issue with this book. Neither he or you are actually listening to why women are upset.

    1. Timeout. How the hell is Wonder Woman defined by her relationship with Superman. I get that the Superman/Lois relationship was retconned in the reboot, but why is that an issue? It's not like they divorced or can't ever get back together. They never even were together. DC wanted to explore a different relationship and it's not like Wonder Woman is different. She still has her own book where Superman is completely absent. She still kicks as much ass as she used to. So what the fuck is the problem? What the fuck is the meaning behind "defined by a relationship?" It makes no sense and just sounds like whining from certain fans who think everything comic books do is offensive to women. Well guess what? Women don't buy comics as much as men so expect them to pander to the male demographic. That's business 101 and if women are offended by that, they might as well say they're against capitalism. You don't see men coming out and getting all pissed off about barbie. It makes no fucking sense.

    2. It's not a significant number of women. It's a loud minority of women who are angry Superman isn't with Lois Lane anymore. Look at the sales numbers. DC isn't listening to you. It's been a year since Superman and Wonder Woman were paired together and honestly there's been little focus on their relationship. Wonder Woman book ignores it completely. In Superman book, the writer has been wishy washy with Superman. Superman is dating Wonder Woman and yet he still is pining for Lois in some ways. Dude you're 27 not 15. Grow up and make up your mind. Better yet, maybe the writer shouldn't play both fanbases. You can't win that way. Justice League is the only book to really focus on the relationship and it's not much. In that book, there has been a date and talk about their feelings. In Justice League, Superman is solely interested in Wonder Woman. He's not pining for anyone else. With the few showings that has been given to the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship, the sales must have been impressive enough for DC to launch a book on it where the relationship can be explored because Justice League, Superman and Wonder Woman books can't do that.

  6. well Cyclops will get his just due.looks like marvel is retconning his marriage to jean so he might just end up the George Clooney of the x-men and end up with new arm candy every season.

  7. This matter is down to earth, hats off buds out there.

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